How to Cope with Rejection w/ Arlan Palmer & Katolo Mendamenda

In this episode of Wedgwood’s Coffee Break Conversation, host Hillary sits down with Pastor Arlan Palmer, Wedgwood’s long-time chaplain and diversity coordinator, and Katolo Mendamenda, a residential home supervisor. Together, they explore how kids -especially those who have faced trauma—struggle with honesty, rejection, and self-worth, and how caregivers can walk alongside them in these challenges.

Arlan and Katolo share insights from decades of combined experience, offering practical wisdom for guiding kids through disappointment, helping them build confidence, and teaching the difference between honesty and cruelty. They also reflect on how adults can model receiving feedback well and demonstrate that mistakes do not define us.

This hopeful and down-to-earth conversation highlights the power of empathy, community, and consistency in helping young people find healing and resilience. Whether you’re a parent, caregiver, or simply someone who values growth, this episode will remind you of the importance of both truth and grace.

LINKS & INFO:

• For more Info on this Podcast
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Transcript

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Hey, it's Hillary. Join me for a helpful and hopeful chat about mental health in our community. So grab a cup of coffee or tea. This is Wedgwood's Coffee Break conversation. I'm so happy to be sitting down with Pastor Arlen and catolo mendemenda for a chat today. Thank you both for being here. Well, thank you. Thank you Thank you for having us. I'd love for you both to introduce yourselves a little bit. Okay, well, I am Pastor Arlen Palmer. I am a chaplain here at Wedgwood. I have been here for over 38 years, and have seen a lot of different things. I'm not only a chaplain, but I'm also the agency's diversity coordinator. We are so lucky to have you, yes, and I'm katoa Menda. Menda, and I am the residential home supervisor for the Antonini Crossroads home, and I've been here just over five years now. Has it really been five years? Yes, ma'am. Wow, wonderful. So recently I heard a leadership talk, and one of the things that the speaker covered was the need to be honest with ourselves. And he actually said brutally honest. And he followed up with this reminder that feeling bad isn't the worst thing in the world, which I thought was a good reminder, but then it got me thinking about people who might have who might not have the internal resources or coping strategies to handle brutal honesty from themselves or from others or they can't handle failure or rejection, and for someone who has that kind of low self esteem or has experienced lots of rejection or constantly receiving harsh feedback, feeling bad might actually be the worst thing for them. And then I thought, you know, who should I talk to about? This is Pastor Arlen and cattolo. I feel like you guys would have some good insight. So first, let's talk a little bit of how, how you both see this in your work with kids and families here at Wedgwood? Well, that is a very, very good question. As you know, we deal with a lot, like on my unit, we deal with a lot of young men who have gone through very challenging times in life. Their backgrounds are have not been the best, and hence the reason why they're placed here with us. And so we get a lot of young men who don't even know how to self regulate. They don't know how to handle disappointment, they don't know how to handle failure, they don't know even how to handle the word no, right? So we tend to see a lot of tantrums, if you will, that you would see in a three year old child, but in a 16 year old young man's body, because they have not known how to handle disappointment. So that's something that's prevalent, and when they come to us. Our goal is to help them learn how to handle a No, maybe not right now, maybe not today. Disappointment from either not making the points to earn what they need to earn, or could be even a loss in terms of something they were looking forward to, maybe it was returning back home, and that's not an option for them. So our goal is to help them learn to cope with those feelings of disappointment, hurt, maybe even abandonment as well. And over my years, you know, in my past life, I've also been a foster parent and and working with kids that have come from Wedgwood into my home and, and I tell them in residential they're used to getting a whole bunch of things. You know, I said, I don't have an activity budget. I have my budget and and I have to and I have to say, No, this is we can't afford to do this. But this is what we what we have to do again. You know, teaching our kids, because sometimes we overcompensate in residential with our kids from time to time when it comes to dealing with kids, with with being disappointed. You know, as a chaplain, you know, kids are always asking us, Pastor Arlen, can I have that extra piece of candy? Or, Pastor Arlen, can I have this? And then you have to say, Well, no, you know, if I give you this, then I have to give it to everybody. So you have to really work with kids. It's hard when kids come to you and say, Pastor Arlen, I can't go home this week because my, you know, my parent blew it and or they blew it, and so you just have to, as a chaplain, I am here to walk alongside them to say, Okay, how are you feeling about that? And then what can you do about that? What? What can you control? And what can they not control? And I had somebody told me the longest time ago when you asked somebody, what's the worst question? What's the worst answer they can give you, the answer is no, and you know what, no's Okay, yeah. But sometimes it's necessary, yeah. So I think people can use just being honest, just being honest, as a way to be mean or say whatever they. Want, and how do we know and teach kids the difference between honesty and cruelty, especially when I think a lot of kids in residential have experienced that to some extent, saying what I what I mean, but really it's just hurtful. So how do we know and then teach kids the difference between honesty and cruelty? Yeah, yeah, that is a challenging one, not necessarily in terms of answering it, but in, like you said, teaching, because with a lot of our young men, they come with their walls are up. They don't want to be hurt, they don't be let down, they don't want to be disappointed. So they're already starting. It's like you're starting your relationship with them from a negative angle, negative perspective, if you will. So when they're already expecting you to let them down, they're already expecting you to leave. They're expecting you to say to say no. So getting them to lower their walls and to start to just learn and understand that, you know, I'm here, I'm going to be safe, I'm not going to abandon you, I'm not going to leave you. Would be the first step, and that is where the challenge comes in, because they didn't get to where they are overnight. It's taken years and years and years of unfortunate things happening to them that have gotten them to this to this place. So trying to break down the walls and getting down to the core of who they are is where we would need to start. And that is where the challenge definitely does, does come in. You have to build that foundation of trust first so they can know what you're saying to them is honest, but not mean, yes, funny, you should ask that question. I'm not only a chaplain for a guy but some of the boys homes, but I'm also a chaplain for some of our girls homes. And you know, gender is different, and how guys handle these things is different than what how women handle these things. And so I had one, well, I've had a couple of homes where, in the girls homes, we they're, they're just mean to each other. I mean, just mean. And like you said, they'll use their phrase, oh, I'm just being honest. And so I think I, along with one of the therapists, led a group with one of our homes about we watched the movie Mean Girls. And, you know, it talks about self esteem. It talks about not what you say, but how you say, yeah. So we have to teach the kids say, You know what? Because whenever we do a group, we go, we have guidelines, you know, the five finger contract, you know, safety, respect, all those things that we have to have in a group and and teaching them, Okay, you tell somebody that using I statements, I feel like such and such, and you model that for them, and you have them reframe that. Say, Hey, you know what? I appreciate you being straight honest, but somebody can be hurt by the way that you said that it takes a lot of reteaching and a lot of reworking and also modeling for ourselves and also being honest with them about when we have been mean or have said something that we you know, well, it's just off the cuff, and we were angry when we said it. So modeling, and then also re teaching them themselves of how to say and say it without hurtful feelings. And I'd like to add on to what Pastor Arlen said, especially the modeling part, because they also haven't had the best examples on how to do it. Yeah, right. So if they watch my interaction with Pastor Arlen, you're right. We can disagree, and I can be honest with him and let him know how I felt about what he said. They're watching our interaction and seeing, Oh, okay, when he said that, he felt hurt, and this is how they they addressed it, because they're always they're always expecting, unfortunately, the negative. Yeah, right, and they don't see the positive. It's like, even when you apologize to them and saying, you know, when I said that, that was a little too harsh, you will be surprised. A lot of them don't even know what to do with the I am sorry for hurting your feelings. They have not experienced that because that wasn't modeled for them. So seeing how we interact with each other and also with them goes a very, very long way with them. Yeah, and I think in how you guys are talking about it, it seems that the right and healthy way to go about this is more work than the you know, if Pastor Arlan said something mean to you and you just screamed at him, that is, theory is a little easier, so you have to teach the kids the process and help them practice it. Yeah, and so I'm thinking a little bit about the balance between protecting kids or kids. Who are people who might be in a bit of a fragile state and then not over coddling them. So how do we navigate meeting people where they're at being understanding and gentle while still holding them accountable and helping them build resilience and encouraging growth and change? So how do we navigate saying hard truths that need to be said, but with compassion. One of the things that I learned a long time ago when I was a foster parent for Wedgwood, when we had foster care, and I love and I love using it with our kids. I love using it as a foster parent. I love the philosophy of parenting with love and logic, and that is using your empathy and your warmth and respect, but putting the responsibility on the individual. And, you know, for instance, safe. For instance, kotola was the kid and, and, and he a walled and he came back, and I, I would say, Man, katoa, you, you made some, some about that. What kind of decision was that, and, and I feel bad that you've made that. So how are you going to correct that? And, and you know that there are some consequences for that. What? What do you think you know the consequences might be, because that was a bad decision. That was that, that what may not been a good choice, you put yourself in danger. You put yourself in jeopardy. But I feel bad for that. Course, he might come back with me some other arguments, sure, but you do your best to use empathy and respect and the way that you did that. You say that with kids and I like I say parenting with love and logic really teaches me not to own the problem, but have the individual own the problem. Interesting, yeah, and very similar to what Pastor Ireland said. I look at where we are, like our our unit, our home, as a training ground, right? It is the crib, if you will, where the child is going to grow and develop and learn what they need to learn before they go out into into the world. And so one of the things I like to do with with the young man, is, if they they mess up. Okay, we've we've messed up. We've done what we're not supposed to do. All right, how did we get here? What led us to this point? And so we're going to walk through it together to see what were they thinking, what were they feeling, what made them make the decision to do what it is that they did, and then, okay, so how can we not do it the next time? What could we do differently the next time so that we don't find ourselves in this same same place? Because I look at where we are right now here at Wedgwood as being the training ground for when you leave Wedgwood's, you can make the mistakes here. You can make the mistakes now, and we can correct them now and know what not to do. The consequences here may be like, okay, yeah, you don't get to go on this outing tomorrow, but the consequences when you're outside of here get much bigger, yeah, so I would rather they make the mistakes now and here, so that we can work with them to correct that and show them. You know, there's a different way of doing this. You know, you you get mad, you throw the furniture around. Well, that's not going to fly when you're outside of here, right? Okay, you've done that here. All right. How did we get to this point walk through that. And so that next time it doesn't, we don't get to the same place. We might get somewhere closer, because there's some movement or progress being made. And to also use that and say, Oh, look, remember last time when you got mad, you threw the chairs around, but this time when you got mad, all you did was, was yell. Definitely the big change. Yeah. All right, so the next time, we're hoping for maybe more calmness for you to even tell me, you know, I'm really mad right now, I don't want to talk. All right, perfect. We'll talk when you're ready. So using the time that we have here as a time to help train them and get them ready for what's out there. Because if we don't do that, I feel we are doing them a huge disservice, and so that will show you, know, a lack of empathy, a lack of compassion for for them. If I'm not doing that here, while they're still with us, what I'm hearing you both say is that the hard truth always comes with a conversation and some processing and a sense of community. Yes, I love that. So what about the other side? How do we receive honesty and accept rejection well? And how can we maybe model that for kids in our lives? Okay? We us? Yeah, as adults, I feel like sometimes that is also a hard thing for us to do, too. We work on it all the time. I'm glad that I have a wonderful supervisor, and you know her pastor, Ray, and we have had some very hard, honest questions and conversations, and she has has given me permission, I'd say yes. ARLEN, you may vent. You. It. And then I just want to say that, yeah, this department's done this, and they're not thinking about this and what have you, and and, but then we have to have some crucial conversations. I had a crucial conversation with with another co worker two weeks ago that was evaluating an activity. And, and I might have got defensive at first, but I had to learn how to receive that and say, Okay, what is, what is good that's going to come out of this? What is, what do I need to hear and not put my my defenses up. Get defensive right away, which is what I try to model for our kids to say, hey, you know what I said? I get very defensive when somebody criticizes me, or I feel like I'm being and they may not be, they may be giving me the best, but when, whenever we think that we've not done our best, I don't feel my debt that I'm giving my best. So I have to, I have to work on that also and and also model that for kids, but knowing that I'm not perfect at doing it, and it all depends on how I'm feeling that day, of how I'm going to receive it, and be honest about that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would concur, because it's not something you you want to experience. It's hard to be to be honest, when somebody comes and wants to talk to you about something that you have done or maybe said, it's not a conversation we're always looking for, looking for or even looking forward to. So it gets very, very very uncomfortable, but what I try to do is listen and know they are coming from a place where something I have some maybe that was not my intention, or maybe was, but I tried to take away something that I can learn from it, because we deal with different individuals, right? The relationship I have with Pastor Arlen will be different from the relationship I have with you. So what we could joke about would be very different with you. So understanding that also is knowing Okay, so how do I learn from that? Take it in and use it to adjust when I'm dealing with this person and knowing how to interact with them. So that's where I try to go, because it's not always a very comfortable place to be when you're being told something, something, honestly. How do you think confidence and self esteem plays into being able to have these conver these harder conversations, being able to kind of process some of these, you know, harsher truths. How do you think self esteem and confidence plays into that for ourselves and for kids? Well, self esteem, how you feel about yourself and like, when I'm working with kids, say, hey, you know, could I maybe ask them, could I be honest with you? You know, I'm not, not, not, not, you know, not trying to hurt you with this now, with our new sanctuary model saying, you know, when people have these conversations, how does this feel for you, and what can I do to have this conversation easier with you? And kids will tell you, Well, if you would just say it this way or don't assume this, you just tried, try, try to work with them to see if they're in that spot ready to receive it. Because, like Koto says, We have a lot of kids where their self esteem is just like this, because they've not been told that their worth, that they're valuable, that their opinion counts, and they've been told to you're not to be seen, nor are you to be heard. And so we really have to do that work and build some of that self esteem up. That's going to give them some self confidence, so that when they do have that criticism, it doesn't tear us down. If we have a difficult time receiving feedback, imagine the difficult time that they have, but if we can build their self esteem up, they would be able to take that and say, hey, you know what? I appreciated that I needed to hear that, but that it takes time. And what a kind thing to do to ask someone to make sure that they're ready to hear the feedback that you have for them before you give it to them, because if they're not in a space to hear it, it's not going to be a productive conversation for anyone. So I love that you mentioned that too. Pastor Arlen, yeah. And also, I think a big thing is knowing, knowing yourself and your your strengths and weaknesses, plays a plays a huge role. You don't want to think too highly of yourself, but you also don't want to think too low of yourself. So finding that balance is is key understanding. Oh, yeah, you know, I have, I've done this before. I've had, you know, a challenging conversation with, you know, this maybe a different person before, but I was able to get through that. Were able to come to a good understanding, and the outcome was a lot better. So I. Um, leaning on the experience and of what you have had in the past helps with that self confidence when you're going into something. And that's another thing a lot of our young men have not experienced before. There's a lot of shame, there's a lot of thinking so low of themselves, it's hard for them to think anything positive about themselves, and so there's a lot of work in trying to get them to build that up. It's even when a young man has messed up, right? And he tells you, Well, yeah, I always mess up. I always do the wrong thing, right? So coming to them and walking alongside them and saying, Well, yeah, you've messed up this time, but remember last time when you messed up, you were able to do A, B and C. So what was different then? How were you able to do that then? And could we do what you did then? Now, because you were the one who did it, nobody made, you know, so showing them from their past that you know, you actually have succeeded, right? Yeah, you have done something that was really, really positive. So helping them build that, if you will, internal resource and for them to be able to look back and see, you know, oh yeah, I've been through this before, and I this is how I handled it. This was the outcome, and this is how I was able to move forward. And so it helps start to build that, that self esteem in them, for them to understand that, yeah, they're not just they're not just failures, right? They may have failed, that's the reality of their life, but yeah, they they can succeed. They can be better than what has gone before, building up that Bank of positive experiences that they can pull from. I love that. Do you have a moment when you've seen a kid begin to believe in themselves again, and what do you think helped shift that narrative for them? Wow, I'm sure you see that quite a bit in your work. It's cool. You know when it happens? You know when we even like when we do? You know we have our men youth ministry here at Wedgwood called loved and and, you know, we, we I'm so glad what Steve has done and why he creates that, and larae and I were as a team. We try to create that and say, Okay, what environment that we wanted to create for our kids. That's why we had the ministry love created, because we wanted the kids to have something and build that up and and know that, hey, you are loved, you're valued, you're worth it. And to to see kids come up and get up front on stage and play a game. You don't understand that that's building, yeah, self confidence. You have some kids, oh, I'm not going up there. I'm not going up there. And, but then when, you know, maybe a week or two later, they'll see another kid went up there, and then they'll be able to come, they start to begin to experience it and say, hey, if they can do it, I can do it. And, and, and the light, and the light comes on. You walk with individual kids, or wherever they're at with their individual plan. When I talk with a therapist, say, Hey, we're working with this on on this kid. And so, okay, let's find one thing positive that they like to do, that they enjoy. As a chaplain, when I do one to ones, I find one thing that's positive and ask them, okay, Oh, you like to do that? Well, tell me about that, whether that's playing chess with them. Now I don't let them beat me, although I did have a kid who let who let me win, who could have beat me. That hurt my self esteem, okay, but anything that we can help them, give them small experiences of success is wonderful, and I've been able to see that over the years happen when we just touch kids where they are and finding the one thing that they can do and succeed, and they then they start building on other things that they can do and be successful. Yeah, and yeah. A lot of it has to do with with experience. Sometimes the light switch just comes on when they they finally realize what's ahead, what they could potentially have that then where they're coming from, right? We, we had one, one young man a while ago who had a loving family that had adopted him, and they really loved on this, this young man, and we had another one who that was the route he needed to take, but he was very unsure about that. Didn't want anything to do it. But when he saw the experience and the love of this other young man, and when he would go for home visits and would come back. And would talk about the different things they did and all of that, and just how he was going to a family. He wasn't necessarily abandoning his old family that he came from, but he was going into another family. He still carries his old family with him, but going to a family that's going to love him, cherish him, and do everything for him, this other young man, it's like for him, the light went on that he finally became very open to to adoption, because of what he saw in somebody, somebody else. So that was one really beautiful thing to see. Another one was a young man who had been here for a while, and he was really struggling. He would have moments of where, you know, he'd make progress, but then he would relapse, make progress, and then relapse. But this one, one evening, his mom had come to visit, and she was getting ready to leave, and she spoke with him, and she was very honest with him, and tears in her eyes, and I just, I was standing there getting ready to let her out, and she told him she loved him, hugged him and walked out. And normally he never would respond to to that. He would just carry on like nothing happened. And initially, in my mind, I was thinking, you know, watching his mom cry. I was about to say, you know, you can't make your mom cry like that, right? So I was getting ready to have a conversation with him, but we walked back onto the unit, and he sat by the table closest to the door, and he just broke down. So I just sat there with him and let him speak. He kind of poured out His heart how he was feeling. Didn't like seeing what his mom in that that state. And I said, Okay, I just was listening here that evening, and it seemed like it was almost overnight, and the light switch came on, you know, the lights went on, and his behavior changed dramatically. And within a short period of time, he was out of here, and from even the reports we've heard, he's been doing very well ever since he left. And so all the work that we had put in, all the work that the mom had put in, that she had even done to change herself so that she could be in a healthier place for him to come home, definitely paid off. I love that. And the way you talked about the two the two young men in your home, having kind of similar experiences, and it got me thinking about when we talked about the positive bank of experiences in somebody's own life that you can look back on see I did it once, I can do it again. But there's also, you're filling the positive bank with experiences of showing what's possible, that it's there's a future ahead too. So all of this, all these conversations, these new experiences with things like loved and trying new things, is helping kids with both their past and their future, which is so cool. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And could I tell you one more other thing, absolutely, and we, we had recently, four kids graduate from high school, wow, and two from his home in particular. Oh, that's awesome. And two kids that have left Wedgwood, but they came back to graduate from lighthouse, and a lot of staff attended, and I was one of the ones that went all the work this village that gives these kids successes, and then we have the other kids looking at these kids who can graduate, because some of them have been far behind in school to make that achievement. I, I, you know, it almost brings me to tears just to watch them graduate. And I went to the ceremony. It was, it was awesome. And then one of the young ladies, she just bawled and cried afterwards, and as she's hugging us on the way out, and in, another young man from Zondervan, one of our Zondervan homes, you know, I was worried about him, but he came back. He drove, like over two hours. They drove him back come to get his diploma. Every time a kid succeeds, we just over rejoice, yeah, and let them know how much of that excitement it is for them to succeed and also inspire others, and having them inspire some of our other kids. Yeah, I love that. What for someone who's listening, who might be struggling with rejection or self esteem right now? What's one truth that you hope that they hold on to today? I think one truth that they need to hold on to. That at my as a diversity coordinator, you are created in the image of God. You are valuable. You are worth it. We live in a fallen world and a world that struggles, but, but, but you're valuable, and because you're in the image of God, and remember that you are and yes, you might make a mistake or what have you, but there's always grace. There's always. Always a new day, and just one day is not gonna ruin your whole life, you know. So that's what I think of. And as I try to talk with folks and talk with kids and even talk with our staff, I love that, yeah. And I would also say with a lot of our kids, and even speaking in general, yeah, there a lot of people who have faced rejection, people closest to them have abandoned them, have not shown any form of care for them. And this is one of the big things I always tell our boys, is, yeah, right now, while you're here, you have us, right? We we're here. We're gonna gonna cherish you can cuss me out and everything. I'll be back tomorrow, right? You can get mad at me and all of that, but I'm still going to love you, right? But when you leave here, you need to find your people, the ones who are going to love you for who you are, who you don't have to change yourself for right? They will love you as unique as you are, because you are the only you, right? So you are special. So find those people, right? If it's a mentor, a trusted adult, a close friend, whose best interest their your best interest is at their heart, right? They they want to see you succeed. They will as we're standing the gap for you, you know they will come and have that challenging conversation with you, even when you don't want to hear it, when you're going down the wrong path. Yes, those closest to you may have rejected you, but that's not the end of the world. There is others out there who love you, who cherish you, and who love you for who you are, right? Those are such good reminders. Thank you both so much for joining me for this coffee break today. This was such a good conversation. Well, thank you. Thank you for having us, yeah, and thank you for being here. There are a lot of great podcasts and conversations available, and I'm grateful you were part of this one today. There are a couple of super simple ways that you can support us and get these important mental health chats in front of more people. First, subscribe or follow. If you listen on a podcast platform like Spotify or Apple podcast, follow Wedgwood's Coffee Break conversation, and if you watch on YouTube, subscribe to our channel second by rating and reviewing the show on your favorite podcast platform, give us five stars and a quick comment on why you listen. It makes a huge difference. You can also check out Wedgwood org slash podcast for more ways that you can support the show. Stay hopeful, stay helpful, and let's have another coffee break soon. You.