Challenges & Hope for the Next Generation w/ Dr. Dan Gowdy & Jessica Knoth

In this episode, Hillary sits down with Dr. Dan Gowdy (President & CEO of Wedgwood Christian Services) and Jessica Knoth (Principal of Zeeland East High School) to discuss the latest research on child well-being in Michigan and what it means for kids and families.

They unpack the mental health challenges youth are facing, the crucial role schools play in support, and why listening and mentoring can make all the difference. Together, they highlight the power of community collaboration and share reasons to stay hopeful about the future.

If you care about supporting kids and want a deeper understanding of both the needs and the possibilities ahead, this conversation offers insight and encouragement!

LINKS & INFO:

• Wedgwood's State of the Child Conference
• The Annie E. Casey 2025 Kids Count Data Book
• For more Info on this Podcast
• Learn more about Wedgwood
• Wedgwood & Podcast Merch

Use code "BREWCREW" for 15% off registration for State of the Child 2026 (February 26th at Frederik Meijer Gardens)

Transcript

Hillary: 0:00

Hey, it's Hillary. Join me for a helpful and hopeful chat about mental health in our community. So grab a cup of coffee or tea. This is Wedgwood's Coffee Break conversation. I'm joined by two very special guests today, Dr Dan Gowdy and Jessica knoth. Thank you both for making the time for this coffee break. Thank you, Hilary. Thanks. Hillary, glad to be here. So I'd love for you both to introduce yourselves a little bit.

Unknown: 0:25

All right. So my name is Jessica knoeth. I am the principal of Zealand East High School entering my 10th year as a high school principal. And before that, I was an assistant principal for a couple years and also a high school teacher. So yes, so that's my perspective. Yes, great.

Dan Gowdy: 0:45

My name's Dan Gowdy. I'm CEO of Wedgwood Christian Services, and it's an honor and privilege to be leading this organization for such a time as this and so important what we're seeing going on and the lives of young people and families right now, and how important it is to have a faith based organization with such a ray of service as to meeting the kids and families where they're at with what they need when they need it.

Hillary: 1:11

Yeah, great. Let's just jump right into it, guys. So I recently, so recently, the Annie E Casey Foundation released the 2025 kid count data book, which highlights state trends in child well being. And we'll have a link to that full report in the episode description. So if listeners would like to listen or look at that themselves, they can this report focuses on four main areas, economic well being, education, health and family and community, and it notes some improvements over the years, but also some significant challenges. So from your perspectives in child mental health and welfare and education in West Michigan, what do you see as areas we've made some improvements, and what are still some of the main challenges for kids?

Unknown: 1:54

You know, after reading that report, it was heartbreaking to see Michigan in some of those areas to be in the category of worse, right? So it got me thinking about, you know, what are we doing, and what does that mean? I would say, in the area of a mental health we are becoming more robust. That bridge between the mental health professionals and education was one that didn't exist 20 years ago, and it was limited 15 years ago. But definitely, I would say after covid, we have had to have had to change the way we do business in a traditional public school setting, and we must provide our students mental health supports in the building, whether it's giving them space to attend their therapy sessions or providing them some therapy supports in the school day. Yeah,

Dan Gowdy: 2:48

I think high schools like Zealand, Zealand east, are really at the forefront on on really providing mental health support right there, embedded into the school, school system. I think we've seen a lot of progress in the stigma of mental health. I think this generation is more open than previous generations talking about their mental health. I think that's huge. I was encouraged by teen pregnancy rates have gone down, but there's Hillary. There's so much there that we need to be leaning in on Michigan, we really need to do better, resource wise, supporting our school systems. I think, unfortunately, we are, like 44th I think, ranked in the country. And on education, 33 overall, and all those other things you talked about. And that's corroborated. What we're seeing nationally, though, is is trending in the wrong direction. I was, I was reading from the Journal of American Medical Association that, you know, physical and mental health conditions are worsening since 2011 ADHD, developmental disabilities, chronic anxiety and depression have all increased significantly since, since 2011 and and we saw that, right? We talked about the mental health, mental health tsunami we saw, you know, with the smartphones and the forward facing cameras and the selfies and the Compare and despair on the social media piece, and then covid hit, and we had isolation, extended isolation. We over protected our kids out out on the playground, and under protected them on these virtual spaces. And this extended isolation we saw, I think, had a lot to do with with the significant increases we've seen and stress and anxiety and and that affects the body keeps score, right? It doesn't just affect your mental health, right?

Hillary: 4:51

What do you believe are the biggest gaps in supports or the systems that are holding us back from tackling some of some of these big challenges?

Unknown: 4:59

I. I would say the funding to be able to have the professionals, the social workers, the mental health experts in the buildings to give access to students during the day. But also there's a lot of responsibilities that our students have today. Think about juggling a regular school day and then being a student athlete, or if you can't be a student athlete any other club, but then, if your parents are working full time, then you become a caretaker after school with your younger siblings. So our students have a lot of responsibilities, and we also have students that need to work to help out their family because of the financial disparities that exist at the moment. So definitely tons of pressure for kids today, and that's something that, you know, a lot of parents can't get an appointment because they can't fit it in because of the hours. And that means that, you know what, they schedule something during the school day, you're missing school. Well, that only furthers the education gap for them. Yeah,

Dan Gowdy: 6:00

yeah. That's really interesting. And you're unique in that regard, because you're in you I think you're very much connected to the Social Work industry and the education and so forth. But that, for me, is a big one. In Michigan is uniquely under resourced in availability of social workers. You look nationally, there's about 180 social workers per 100,000 US residents. Oh, guess what Michigan is? Oh, no, it's like 11 or 12 per 100,000 residents and and when and we need to, to celebrate, to encourage more of our talent to go into this field. Yeah.

Hillary: 6:47

So what role, and you've talked about this a little bit, Jessica, but what role can schools, nonprofits, churches, other organizations, play in bridging those gaps? And then what does meaningful collaboration actually look like? Not just, you know, oh, we're partnering, but like it's actually making a difference. Making a difference.

Unknown: 7:03

I think that what I have noticed with Wedgwood, there's a desire to be in the school system and going and meeting with the students in the building, yeah, that is really powerful, because you're taking that physical barrier off the table now, but also, even including some telehealth forms of providing therapy to students during the school day. So the I would say the number one way would be to be able to get into the building, but if not, making some space for students to be able to have access after hours or non traditional hours would be helpful.

Hillary: 7:40

Yeah, I like that. You phrased it, taking out the physical barrier to getting care.

Dan Gowdy: 7:46

Yes, yeah, the schools are on the front lines. On this there are first responders, so to speak, and they but they can't tackle this alone, and we need the whole community, faith based communities, the Wedgwood's of the world, to be walking in step, supporting each and it does take a community and a lot of respects. I can't tell you how important it was for my my coach when I was in school, who was saying a lot of things my parents were saying and what, but that was that that one adult in that individual's life, and I think that's where the community has. I think we all have one adult, excuse me. We all have one youth in our lives, at least one that is there for a reason, that if we have the eyes and listen to engaging with that individual, where they're at getting involved with what they like to do, and finding out what that is, and then get involved, and then the conversations will happen after that. So I say each of us having that mindset, that we can be that one for that young child somewhere in our life.

Unknown: 8:52

Yeah, I wonder if there's a world where we can have businesses, churches and different organizations partner with us, and for us in education, it has been a huge leap to be able to get trained in seeing mental health as something that's part of physical health, part as educational health, all these pieces. But I think we're all in a spot where we all say CPR, and we know what that means, right? If we're in a restaurant, we're at a store and someone's choking, or someone needs is bleeding. We all know that we need to go and help and do something about it, yeah. How might we see when we someone is experiencing some mental illness or mental distress? We have that same response as well, because we know it's not only in the educational setting. We know the adults are struggling as well. The younger kids are struggling as well. So what if we all would have a response that when we see some the signs of someone struggling, just like we see someone choking, right? We know what the sign is when we see some significant emotional distress, might we have a response of urgency the same way we would have, like if someone's choking? Yeah. And what would that mean if we would all be on. The same page as a community. I think that would be really powerful.

Hillary: 10:03

Yeah, yeah. And then have have the knowledge, or the the motivation in our pocket to actually do something to absolutely

Unknown: 10:11

because, you know, we're like, I'm not a doctor, right? But if someone, if someone is in distress, physical distress, I'm a step in and say something and just get and get help. That would be the response for us to have when someone is emotionally experiencing some significant concern, for us to step in and say, you need help. How can we get you connected?

Hillary: 10:30

Yeah, yeah. So when a student or a family is facing multiple barriers, we talked a little bit about the physical barriers, like mental health, instability at home, academic struggles, not being able to have the time or the funds to do something ideally. What do they need surrounding them to not just survive but thrive?

Unknown: 10:52

One is love and support and consistency. And I think that's where I love what Wedgwood, you know, hear what we do, and it's so powerful, because every interaction you have with the individuals, there's this tender love and support. One would be love, but the other piece is structure in that being able to be predictable and know that your environment is predictable, very important for kiddos that are struggling today. Yeah,

Dan Gowdy: 11:20

yeah, yeah, I'd echo that. I think, when I think of families, do they have the internal, you know, resources themselves, that might be Yeah, that the the ability to manage some some situations, but the external supports that they need to go to when they're at their limit, right? And so just like youth, parents and families are experiencing things that we never thought were a reality, even 1015 years ago. And and so we can't just do things the way mom and dad did them right and and that's good and bad. I mean, it's going to keep us fresh, it's going to keep us connected, but at the same time, where do we go to when we are at our end, our limit? And I think that's where the community talked about being, being that first a mental health CPR, so to speak, is we're all have a role to play in the community. We all have strengths and abilities and perspectives and skills and energy, energy level. And so how do we support agencies, faith based agencies like Wedgwood support families where they're at when they need it, so not just with the skills and abilities to manage these situations. How do you how do you survey online? Right? And that's what I love about schools like Jessica school that that they're right on the cutting edge. Their IT director is right there and helping engage us and others on what, what's going on online. How do we protect our kids online? Because the technology and the the apps that are used, it changes quite drastically. The words our kids are using, right change right? There's not just dictionaries, there's books written in and and so how do we stay connected? But at the same time, when we're at our limit, where do we go to for

Hillary: 13:18

support? And why is it so important to invest in kids' economic Well, being, their education, their mental and physical health and community? So why is it important to invest in all of these different areas together?

Unknown: 13:32

Well, I think all of us are made of all those parts, right? None of us, I mean, well, we have some students that are very academically involved and do very well academically, but you're talking about your 10% of your student population, right? And then, but then everyone's on their own curve. And so then we have to be able to adapt to what that student needs, knowing that life throws you some unexpected U turns. Then you have to be able to write them and not give up. So I think that if being able to, you know, for a school system, for us, is to be able to provide everything there. So from in our standpoint, as Zealand public schools, our food service, you know, we know where to go for if somebody has a food scarcity need we know where to go if a student is struggling with a medical situation, we know where to go in regards to the medical piece. If a student needs mental health support, where do we go? So we now, as Dan mentioned, are that first tier of response. So therefore, it doesn't mean that we're going to solve every problem, but we know how to access support and help for the family. So I think that that's been the shift for us. We are not only doing the book content teaching for secondary people like myself, the high school people. We love our content, and it's a beautiful thing. I was a social studies teacher. Loved teaching social studies. 90s, however, today's world, I've had to adapt and say, Yes, that is a wonderful thing. And I also have to love you. And if you come to my class and I see you sad or depressed or something going on that you're not yourself now for two weeks, there's something wrong here. I need to go ahead and tell someone, if you write something on a piece of paper, that it's a little bit worrisome. I got to talk to someone and having those open lines of communication. So that idea, right, that it takes a village to raise a child. That village right now, we need to rely on it. No parent can do it on their own. It's never been harder to be a teenager. It's never been harder to be a kid. It has never been harder to be a parent, I'll tell you that. And because there's so many pressures and there's so much out there, yeah, but there's also a lot of opportunity, so I don't want to lose track of that as well. We know so much today, right? And with that, that knowledge does come power, but it also comes responsibility for us

Dan Gowdy: 15:59

that so well said. And why do we think have to think about it all together, because we can't separate it. Yeah, that's a wonderful example that Jessica gave. We got a teacher about teaching, but stress, anxiety, the body keeps score. So you can't just go into classroom and compartmentalize a traumatic event that happened that weekend, or whatever. It affects your ability to thrive in every setting. It affects us, and that's what the mental health is supreme in a lot of this regard. It is at the core. It's at the essence of our ability to function well over time. You can cope with something, but not over time. We all have our limits and and so I, for me, it's important to invest in all of it, because you cannot separate it. Truly, You cannot separate it. I go back to the the, the the what we understand about a scores, you know, the adverse childhood experiences and how we we've learned that whether a child has a separation or trauma, other these other factors in their life, it affects not just their ability and to capacity to learn, but it affects their physical health as well. And so if we just go and just focus on one aspect of it, it's like we're playing whack a mole, and that doesn't seem very productive here. So I think our success as a community is going to how well we get together, yeah, how well we connect all those dots and come around the families, because that's our best defense, and then the school is our frontline responders and organizations like Wedgwood and so forth, to be there And to bat that back and forth and engagement to help learn and grow and be available where the families, where the youth need it when they need it. And

Hillary: 17:49

I'd like to add the importance of also listening to kids and families and the people who work with them, so we can better understand the challenges and the needs. And Wedgwood is committed to providing a space for the community to listen and learn and activate so quick plug for Wedgwood's state of the child conference. It's really meaningful and an insightful event. And I know I'm a little biased, but I would highly recommend attending if you have work with care about kids. It's coming up on Monday, February 23 2026 you can check out all the details on our website, and there will be a link in the description and a special brew crew discount code in the episode description. So it's a great opportunity to really understand the needs and you've both been a part of this conference. Can you talk about why bringing the community together in this way to listen and learn is so important?

Unknown: 18:41

I will tell you that, as an educator, it is probably the most important conference I attend, wow in the state of Michigan. And I say that because what it does is it gives me a full picture of where things are at at this moment in time with our youth and with our kids, there's no other place that you can get that, other than at this conference. It's not giving you parts of of this is great. This is not great. It's giving you everything. And there's something powerful about that, right? Because it's easy for us in education to close our doors and just say, You know what, we're gonna take care of these kids. And it's we're just gonna leave everything out there and know every everything is now all together, yeah, and not only that, but just the different sessions that exist, and just the training and expertise that you get, just from going and hearing to the professionals, it's just incredible. I bring my entire staff from my office, counseling and social workers, because it's just valuable. I actually, they attended a couple years ago, and the moment they it happened, they said, please let me I want to come every single year, because I got so much out of it in what's going on with our students. Because now that I know. Like I need to do something. And so for me, it's that now it holds me accountable of what I need to get done when I get back to my building.

Hillary: 20:09

And we'll note we did not ask her to say this.

Dan Gowdy: 20:11

Well, that makes me so proud, because what I what I am, one of the things I'm most proud about the event is it's the child is at the center. The youth is at the center. In fact, it's going to be so much at the center this year that our keynote speaker is going to be Time Magazine's kid of the year, Orion Jean, and he's going to be talking about what my generation needs you to know. So the idea of focus on the youth and then the conference is built off on that. I think that and respect from you and your team and others, they get benefit about it is that's what's that's what's there. Youth are telling their story in very meaningful ways about things that are relevant and matter. And I think that's why, in some respects, professionals, pastors, youth pastors, parents, principals and so forth, have enjoyed it is because the youth is at the center. What's

Unknown: 21:09

the only time in education that you have all of the stakeholders that are responsible for a kid at the table at the same time, you have the medical professionals. You have your social workers, you have your educators. I mean, you have all these other organizations represented, and the student voice there saying, This is what I'm seeing. This is what's happening. But also these are some hopeful strategies that you can use in order to not lose sight that there, there are a lot of things that we're doing right, and there are things that we are we we think we're going to be able to do, yeah, but also it allows you to self reflect and think, but these are the things that we haven't done, yeah, and what might that mean for us?

Hillary: 21:59

Yeah, and you talked about making sure that we've everybody's talking and we're all on the same page about where people are at and what people need, and state of the child is a is a place where, like you said, every every organization, every sector, is represented there, we're all listening together, which is super cool. So, Jessica, you've talked about a little bit about how your school has implemented some practices to get mental health care a little more accessible for kids in the building. Are there other ways that you've seen schools and educators get innovative in addressing some of these needs for kids and families?

Unknown: 22:36

You know, one of the things that we have done in our district is every single person gets a training in mental health and suicide prevention, in looking for the signs of anxiety, depression and suicide, and that's been from from our food service team to our bus drivers. Everyone gets trained, and we all know exactly how to respond when we are worried about a student. And that's something that in Ottawa County, we are working towards all being on the same page in that regard. And I know in Kent County as well, it's something that's been a focus for all of us, that the number one piece for us is being able to know what to do and all being trained.

Hillary: 23:22

Yeah, I love that. And Dan, our mission here at Wedgwood is to extend God's love through mental health and behavioral health care. So how do you see Wedgwood's mission and approach as a part of the solutions for our community's needs?

Dan Gowdy: 23:35

Yeah, I think we need to continue to focus on not just the youth, but the families and those those natural supports that are available to them. I think the Wedgwood's of the world need to also be looking at, how do we embrace technology, particularly with generation this Gen Z and follows is because they're more comfortable with the technology and so traditional ways to connect in meaningful ways with youth and families may not be enough and may not be preferred, but going back to the original point about Michigan only having 11, approximately 1011, to 12 lmsws per 100,000 residents, we need to leverage technology, and the strategic elephant in the room is artificial intelligence. So how can we use AI? And I think we need to lean into that. And we are Wedgwood. We're building our hub, we're building our platform, but to help triage, to help create platforms where a clinician can can simultaneously connect in meaningful ways to more people help, help the clinicians be spend more time working with the individual and not doing administrative work behind the scenes. There's so much that AI can help us in that regard, with training and develop. Meant real time and so forth. I think we as an organization and we as a community need to, need to find ways to do that meaningful now. We could use it for not good things. We got to find a way to use that technology for good and in meaningful ways, because we don't have enough talent out there social workers and others to serve the need. So we need to find a way to by necessity, to embrace technology, to get get it done.

Hillary: 25:31

What is one thing you want to make sure our coffee break friends walk away from this chat knowing and understanding about the state of Michigan's kids and families,

Unknown: 25:42

I would say the power of listening. We live in a world where our our kids are consuming a lot, so their input is a lot, social media, friends, what they're doing constantly. Right in school, you're sitting and you're getting information you are doing? Yes, there is a lot. There is project based and all those other pieces. But that time, when they're home, or where they're with a parent or guardian or someone adult that loves them, how might we use that time to just listen, ask some pondering questions and say, you know, I love you. I care about you. I love how you think. Tell me what's important in your life right now, and those open ended questions to be able to to listen and hear what they're saying. Because I think when you take a second to sit down with any teenager, they have a lot to say, Yeah, and it's it's powerful. It doesn't mean that, you know, we do everything they tell us, you know, to do, we need boundaries and structure and accountability. But there also is, there's power in listening and in feeling heard, in feeling seen as well. Those two things go together. Yeah, yeah. I love that. That

Dan Gowdy: 26:56

is so powerful. And I would just, I would just put an exclamation point on saying that that the greatest resource we have is the potential within every child. And how do we how do we leverage that? How do we expose that? How do we give that a spark, considering that there's might be some trauma in that, in that individual's life, but kids are resilient. Families are resilient. This is possible. We can do

Hillary: 27:24

this. Yeah, if you could issue one challenge or invitation to the community, what would it

Unknown: 27:32

be? I would say, find someone to mentor. Find a teenager at your church at your maybe it's someone that you work with, and they have a couple of kids, and they're like, you know, we're feeling stressed over give people a break, or find someone to mentor, to be in their lives and provide that space for them, to be a listening ear, to be someone that they can count on with No with nothing attached to other than I care about you, I'm here. Yeah, all of us at some moment in time, need a break. Yeah, we need someone there, a cheerleader. How might we be that for somebody else?

Dan Gowdy: 28:14

So good? I would say, yeah, that be that one, Be the one that could be, that could help change a youth rife, and then you have that trajectory of where that individual that where they are, and also the their potential life and where they where they need to go, and and the research is very clear, right? You know that one caring adult in that use life over time can be the difference, and all it takes is being that one. And

Hillary: 28:45

I know we've talked about a lot of things that can feel kind of heavy, like things have gotten worse in certain areas, and, you know, states being ranked not super ideally in certain things. So it can feel really heavy, especially when we're talking about big challenges and gaps and big needs in the system. But what is giving you hope about the future of Michigan's young people? I would say the state of the

Unknown: 29:07

child. I'm gonna put another plug for that conference. You know, I left incredibly motivated and hopeful for our youth, but I think going to the park and seeing kids, you know, just playing there is fantastic. I live in Ottawa County, so I get to go to the beach all the time. You know, we are very grateful to have access to and you go and you see kids just enjoying themselves and having fun. I would say, when I see kids connecting with nature, it's always affirming to be able to see that. But I would say putting your phone down every time I see a teenager that chooses to put their phone down and engage in one on one conversation, that gives me hope.

Hillary: 29:49

Yeah. Oh, that's, yeah. That is an awesome thing to see.

Dan Gowdy: 29:53

I, I'm, I'm a Gen Z guy. I I'm, I'm pro Gen Z. You. I think they're they're they're they're they're they're obsessed with authenticity. They because they've seen so much fake online, yeah, and I think the engagement and authentic real relationships, because they see it as a need in their own life, I think is going to bring us together and allow for us to break down some of these barriers that exist. So I'm high on Gen Z and and bringing marrying, marrying that the need for genuine, authentic relationships, but using not as technology, being a tool, not an ends to a mean in that regard. So

Hillary: 30:40

as a millennial, I will only be sort of offended because you're right. I mean, the their need for authenticity and being real is really encouraging. For more information about Wedgwood's state of the child conference and other ways that you can partner with Wedgwood to be a part of creating a community where kids and families can thrive. Head to our website and don't forget, we have a special discount code for you. Use code brew crew for $15 off your state of the child, conference registration. Stay hopeful, stay helpful, and let's have another coffee break soon. You.